Christopher Claunch Presents - Fish, Hunt, Cook Podcast - Live Better Outside

Christopher Claunch shares the outdoors experience with a focus on healthy ancestral eating, field to table living, and stories of inspiration. This podcast has everything you need to know about improving your outdoor experience through health, wellness, and tasty cooking. Christopher is uniquely qualified to act as a bridge between the Outdoors Industry and Technology and also digs into entrepreneurial adventures. Tune in for a mix of the overlapping worlds of Fishing, Hunting, Adventure, Health, Fitness, and Business. This Podcast is a collection of inspiring conversations with top performers in all areas that have a common bond. Ambitious, energetic and willing to help others. Christopher hopes to one day share with the listener's everyone who has inspired him in some way over his lifetime. A remarkable dose of relevant and authentic conversation that can oscillate from heartbreaking to hilarity. is a collection of content and strategies that are exploding like; SEO, Influencer Marketing, Social Neuro Science, The Ketogenic Diet, Field to Table, Culinary, and adventure travel to name a few. is the home of the Outdoor Entrepreneur, The Claunching Pad Blog, Ancestral Recipes, and the place to find your jump off point into a richer life which is always better outside.
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Dec 6, 2016


Talking Huntin' & Fishin'

Christopher & AJ talk about Lifestyle Design - Entrepreneurial lifestyle to support a hunting & fishing habit

  • How AJ hunts from August to December in several states.
  • Working with Outdoors International to schedule dream hunts.
  • The value of hard work and family in the field!
  • Consistent success not matter what and much, much, more.
Oct 21, 2016

In this episode I interview my new friend i met at Train to Hunt oregon this year. Actually Russ Meyer of Outdoors International Introduced me  after he found out dude had just lost 35 pounds of fat and was looking lean and mean. 

Eric Fry goes into his experience with the Ketogenic diet and I mean goes in really deep.  He gives some of his exact diet protocols and meal plans.

As a follow up interactive experiment we are are going to hold a 45 day keto Eric challenge  for those interested in participating. 


Oct 14, 2016

On this episode of the The Rec & Tech Podcast Christopher Claunch talks how to fly fish Silver Creek in Picabo, Idaho.  More specifically how to fish the Brown Drake Hatch for Big Brown Trout on Silver Creek in Idaho.

Of course it wouldn't be a Claunch discussion without a little talk about The Outdoor Entrepreneur and how to succeed in the Fly Fishing Business.

Some other Topics

  • Why John Huber choose Literature of Marine Mammals and how he became an Outdoor Entrepreneur.
  • How to Fly Cast a Dry Fly to become the 'next available fly" to the rising fish.
  • How the Picabo Angler played a key role for Christopher Claunch to become an Outdoor Entrepreneur and open Hagerman Valley Sports in Hagerman, Idaho.
  • Guided Trips and why using a guide from Picabo Angler can make all of the difference.
  • Are fish leader shy or is it just the Fly Fisherman that is leader shy?
  • The loire and hallowed ground that is Silver Creek, Idaho.
  • Is John Huber the Dali Lama or as Claunch coined it "The Dali of the Drakes"
  • Should we love or neighbor like ourselves when Fly Fishing

This is a great opportunity to get an insiders look at Silver Creek in Picabo, Idaho and learn a little more about the happening around The Picabo Store. 

Jul 15, 2016
How Andrew Warner Went from Shoveling Snow to Inc Magazines Top 3 Tech Podcasts

Andrew Warner can't help but make you smile

Way back since Episode 1 of Podcast you've been wondering where #2 is?  Well it's been held up in Post Production while I traveled to Scotland to Hunt Roe Buck, Fly Fish for Giant Rainbow Trout, and over to Austria where I landed at a David Gilmour concert. All were phenomenal and here is Episode #2.  I tried to make it perfect but I should know better, just put it out there. 

Andrew Warner has helped start up entrepreneurs that number too many to count. He has accomplished this amazing feat by interviewing some 1300 successful entrepreneurs the likes of Seth Godin, Tim Ferris, Dane Maxwell, Gary Vaynerchuk, Bryan Franklin, Neal Patel, Barbara Corcpran, James Altucher, and so many more.

Andrew interviews successful entrepreneurs some we know and some we don't. He digs in deep and brings out the failures that led to successes.  You can find Andrew Warner on the site he founded,  Andrew can be found not only busting out relevant interview after interview, but helping people quiet their mind chatter and learn to use their True Minds. Andrew offers additional services to the up and comer like a library of Masters Classes on all subject matter entrepreneurial.  Go check out you will learn more than you ever thought you could. 

The Outdoor Entrepreneur, yours truly, joined 2 sessions of Mixergy's Interview Your Heroes with Dr. Jeremy Weisz Mixergy's producer and founder on The Inspired Insider Podcast. I attended 2 very extended sessions and these were the foundation for me interviewing him for three reasons.  He challenged me to get of butt and take action, he will bring much needed knowledge the Outdoor Industry, and he is one of my Heroes.

This episode is heavy at times and authentic at times, but we also have a great time and laugh it up while just chatting. I was really nervous as you will see, but I just let the cards fall where they may.  I think you will learn a few things about Andrew and I you didn't know and I hope you get a ton out of it. 

Have fun and learn a little too.



Christopher: [2:30]
Hello this is Christopher Claunch with the Rec & Tech podcast where I'm attempting to bridge the gap between recreation and technology. I like to have conversations with both outdoor enthusiasts that are entrepreneurs and also [14:00] those entrepreneurs that are in the technology space.
I want to bring with you the stories, how they were able to do it because a lot of times we're looking for maybe just a catalyst, just a little help to get started in the right direction and a lot of the people that I know -- friends and colleagues -- in the outdoor industry haven't been exposed to that space today.
What I wanted to do today was bring Andrew Warner from
Andrew: [3:21] Good to be here.
Christopher: [3:23] Andrew's been a long time friend and mentor and I started watching Andrew's podcasts many years ago -- over five years ago -- and I think I've watched somewhere in the neighborhood of 600 to date. Andrew has 1,287 podcasts to date -- if you didn't know that Andrew -- and Andrew teaches his listeners in the Internet or technology space [15:00] -- entrepreneurs -- how to learn from the entrepreneurs that he interviews and those entrepreneurs already have a track record of success.
You know, Andrew, I think that I heard you say, one of your many quotes is -- business is like a dream factory where you can just get in there and create and you can get to a spot and you can take it anywhere that you want to take it. That's why business is so awesome and I put down at one point that Mixergy's vision was to act as a catalyst for the ambitious.
Andrew: [4:25] Yes.
Christopher: [4:26] I've always said if I could have a person that had 1% willing that I could work with them and I think you can see that too -- that ambition.
I want to welcome everybody and say "hello" to Andrew.
Andrew: [4:36] Thanks for having me on here. You really do bridge the gap. You as a person, bridge the gap between "rec" and "tech" you do have them both in you.
I remember actually, you and I started talking about business and tech and then we got to be closer friends when you sent me photos of -- I think some of your fishing trips?
Christopher: [4:52] Yes.
Andrew: [4:53] I told you it was years since I'd been fishing. Maybe since I was a teenager. What do you love about fishing? I know you've got a bunch of questions. But what is it about fishing that gets you to go away from your work and go disappear from the world for a little bit?
Christopher: [5:26] That's a great question, Andrew. This will be in our third podcast when we start to talk about neurophysiology and mind-chatter, but there's something about business and "busy" being the first part of that word and things are so crazy.

When I step into the river, there's a couple of things that happen for me. There's a peace that comes over me and also fly fishing for me is very rhythmic.
Andrew: [5:52] Mm-hmm.
Christopher: [5:53] Like a metronome. That rhythm that comes from the water and the sounds and the motion, I find it to be -- maybe this is a little heavy -- but almost transcendent. I don't necessarily get a fix with catching the fish but I'm getting outside; I get the fresh air; I get the exercise and I'm in nature.
That and in hunting, my lack of success in hunting has me pinned as a photographer, not a hunter. One of the things is is that it really energizes me and I [17:30] tell people it only takes a half hour or 45 minutes on the river and I'm cured of what ails me.
It silences the angry mind.
Andrew: [6:41] Yes.
Christopher: [6:41] I think one of the things that I've always admired about you, Andrew, is that you're a runner. Within your hectic day... I know that you run to work sometimes. But you're in the city. How is that experience similar to what I was just saying.
Andrew: [7:00] I am in the city and I really was bumming out this morning as I ran in to work and I called my wife just to have somebody to talk to because I run six miles in the city and there's something very -- bla -- about running in the city over and over again.
I only lived in Washington DC for I think two years, but I miss it like it was home. Like it was where I was born and spent the first 20 years of my life, largely because [18:30] in Washington DC I felt like such a free runner more than any other time in my life. Now in San Francisco as a runner, I feel the most landlocked, the most -- like a runner in a car world. It's just having a negative impact on me.
I remember in Washington DC, my wife would drop me off at the top of the park and I would have to run home and there was nothing with me. If I got too [19:00] thirsty, then that's it. You just have to deal with it. It's not like I'm going to die from thirst out there. But I'm not going to have the comfort of being able to go grab water when I feel like it or a cup of coffee when I feel like it. I'm just out there.
The lack of options is what freed me up. It's what allowed me to sometimes get lost in thought about work. Sometimes just get lost in thought about the future or things that are just so random and unimportant.
I miss that. [7:30]
I miss that, being away from it. Yes, I could do it here in San Francisco, but it's a drive to get to it and it feels so different, so much less like being in nature and more like taking... More like going to Starbucks. I might as well get in my car and go to Starbucks or get in my car and go to where nature has been designated here. That's the part that I really am missing.
Christopher: [7:57] Sure. Don't worry, we've got a place for you up here. Many of us that you've helped with and the interviews and the classes and the mastermind meeting that you were so gracious to both start and facilitate for us.
Andrew: [8:13] Thanks.
Christopher: [9:13] Brian Call and I were talking on the phone -- Brian is part of the Mixergy mastermind -- and he had asked me a question that he had often asked me. They say, "Why Hagerman?"
I said, well if you don't know, you haven't lived yet -- because all the water is here and it all flows down into here.
And he said, "what's it like?" and I said, "it's heaven's dowry." It's a place where all these great gifts were given to us and it's great. You have those place near San Francisco, but it would really be fun to get you up here and take you out and have some fun with that and just relax.
One of the things that we'll talk about today a little bit is burnout and managing so much.
Why don't we do this. We'll let people get to know you a little bit better by -
Andrew: [10:03] Sure.
Christopher: [20:03] -- taking a little trip in a time machine. Since you're my technical mentor, if I wanted to show you my screen -- and I'm using Evaer Recorder for Skype -- but if I wanted to show you a different screen, I can just simply use the -
Andrew: [10:19] You want to show it on Skype and let the audience see your screen too?
Christopher: [10:22] Yes, you need to see it too.
Andrew: [10:23] Sure.
Christopher: [10:24] You graduated college. Where did you go to college?
Andrew: [10:29] NYU.
Christopher: [21:29] It was NYU in New York and then you went and talked to your buddy Roman and he gave you the same bad advice that we all get from our loved ones and our friends when we -
Andrew: [10:43] Yeah.
Christopher: [10:43] -- that are half-cocked entrepreneurial idea. Right? You remember that?
Andrew: [10:48] Except his was a little well-meaning. Roman... I got so excited about the possibility for this new company I started, I just kept telling him -- look, we're going to be doing emails; the Internet's the place to be; we're going to grow our mailing list; we're going to grow this.
I think at the time we were doing greeting cards already and I told him about the power of greeting cards; I got really excited and he said, "you know, you actually could get a job; you don't have to start this company."
Christopher: [11:13] Right.
Andrew: [11:14] In the sense that he was basically pitying me for having this desire to start a company and telling me all this excitement that I have is kind of foolish. Don't feel so bad for yourself, Andrew, you could actually get yourself a job. You're not helpless.
I realize there was a lot of that from Roman coming at me and I just needed to stop seeing him as a friend.
Christopher: [11:37] The thing is, Andrew, there are so many well-meaning people in our lives that are there to give us that guidance and one of the things that... I was talking to Corey and he's like, "dude, you got it; you can do it; don't let anything get in the way and don't let your counter-mind get in the way."
So the company you were talking about at that point. Was it...
Andrew: [12:05] It was Bradford and Reed; it was online greeting cards. But at the time I told Roman -
Christopher: [12:14] But it was before that, wasn't it?
Andrew: [12:17] Sorry?
Christopher: [12:17] Wasn't it before that?
Andrew: [12:19] Yes. I told Roman before it, when we were just trying to figure out what it was going to be when we had all these different ideas for it.
I kind of feel like you have to go through this period [12:30] of trying to figure things out by getting it wrong a lot. The example I often give is, when I interviewed this guy whose whole company helped stores figure out how to sell more clothes. He noticed that when women were shopping for clothes, they try on multiple outfits and then they would buy one or be OK with not buying any. When men shop for clothes, they would only want the one and they would either buy it or not and that's it and they weren't [13:00] trying...
I kind of feel like we need to be more like the women shoppers that he was looking at -- willing to try a lot more to find the right one and make it look right. I was at that stage, which was probably why Roman kind of felt sorry for me.
Maybe my ideas weren't so clear, but it was sharp enough for a start and they were clear enough based on my logic for it for how to figure out how to make it work.
Christopher: [13:24] What I wanted to share was... I'm going to see if you remember this; I'm sure you do. When you were the first guy to -- way before big lotteries were cool -- when you gave the prize worth a billion dollars. I had seen this one right here. Do you remember this?
[video plays]
Andrew: [13:44] Oh, I see it now.
Christopher: [13:45] The very young...
Andrew: [13:53] I was being interviewed on Good Morning America.
Christopher: [13:53] I was wondering where came into the picture? What I had there was an old video clip of you on Good Morning America. You're so young and even doing really good research on you, Andrew, I was unable to find out the chronology of it, where that fit in there, you as the CEO of But I think it would be first, wouldn't it?
Andrew: [14:22] We started with email newsletters. We moved on to greeting cards and [14:30] we still had the email newsletter business and I think what happened was I started to see that the people who we were buying a lot of ads from actually lottery sites, the sites where you go on and you pick six numbers out of 66 or seven numbers out of 77 or whatever and if you win, you win a cash prize or some other thing. People were actually signing up to this stuff and I noticed it and said we should get into that business too. We had at that point [15:00] well over ten million email subscribers from our greeting card business so I said if we just copy the business that's already working and share it with our list of over ten million people, that's got to take off.
So that's where the idea originally came from and that's... The thing that I wanted was for it to be bigger than the competition and I said how do we make it bigger. I always wanted to go so big that I could actually leave my mark on the world and I said this is the opportunity. [15:30] I've been hustling without anyone noticing me for a long time. Now is the coming out party. Let's go and find a PR firm; let's go and find a way to make this really big; let's go and just start from scratch with a brand new concept and not cut any corners. That's why I bought instead of "" That's why I hired a PR company; that's why I wanted to be on Good Morning America and not some little television show that no-one's going to watch; that's why I wanted to be in USA Today and all those other places where people are actually going to read and so we went for it and we got it.
It was me and this whole team and I feel we're still bonded today because of that.
Christopher: [16:11] Awesome. It was kind of a chapter of your life that I wasn't really aware of the Bradford and Reed?
Andrew: [16:24] It was Bradford and Reed and it did sound intentionally similar to Dun and Bradstreet I think. This idea of these two names that kind of sound impressively old, American and so we kind of copied them. Yes.
Christopher: [16:37] One of the things that I noticed when going through some of the things that I didn't know about and wanting to learn more about you was the fact that...
I've got your video locked up.
Andrew: [16:53] Oh, am I frozen on your screen?
Christopher: [16:55] Yes, but it's probably something I did.
Andrew: [16:56] I'm recording everything so actually I'll have a copy of it if you want to stop right now and I'll call you back, we can restart everything.
Christopher: [17:02] OK. That would be awesome because . . .
Andrew: [17:04] Actually, let me do this. Let me turn my video off and turn the video back on. That work?
Christopher: [17:10] Let's see. It's spooling. There you are. It's working.
Andrew: [17:15] I'm back. So that does work. Good.
Christopher: [17:17] We've established a couple of things. You're a runner; you're a grand marketer from what you've told us about how you planned these naming conventions and you're a technician. Because that could have freaked me out. I could have broke down and just shut it down completely, because...
Andrew: [17:34] Oh, the Skype thing?
Christopher: [17:35] Yes. Just panic...
Andrew: [17:36] I have been doing so much tech support for Skype for years.
It's amazing how entrepreneurs could build hundreds of millions of dollars in value for their businesses and still struggle with Skype.
Christopher: [17:46] Just getting it all set up was... Even in the... I went through two "Interview Your Heroes" courses, masters classes, with big names and I remember watching some of the what I would consider very famous people, authors, famous entrepreneurs, tech inventors, struggling in the forum with the tech.
Andrew: [17:07] Yes.
Christopher: [17:07] It was funny doing research on you. Just doing research on you over the last month, Andrew, and re-listening to some things where you said -- it doesn't have to be perfect -- and stuff, saying -- it doesn't have to be perfect; just do it.
Then having people in the industry, right here in the... "Christopher, just do it; just get out there and do it."
Andrew: [17:26] Yes.
Christopher: [17:26] One of the... To go through the past the greeting card company is when you started Mixergy and one of the things that I wanted to introduce people to you is it's OK to say, "I was wrong," and it's OK to say, "I failed," and it's OK to get help from other people, as a matter of fact, we encourage it. That by you don't know to ask somebody in and you had fallen down and you started making sure you were bringing -
Andrew: [17:50] I'm so curious where you are going with this. Like, what's the big failure you're about to bring up?
Christopher: [17:54] Well, I'm not going to expose all of it, Andrew. I got to keep a little something -
Andrew: {17:57] Come on go for it.
Christopher: [18:38] -- in my back pocket.
Andrew: [18:40] I'm all right with them all.
Christopher: [18.41] You started to have events that you were bringing people to -- hence the name Mixergy; they were mixers -- and you were going to teach people and it was going to blow up, but it didn't, did it?
Andrew: [18:56] No. People were coming to the events but it never got really huge and when they were coming to the events all they were exited about was just kind of getting to see other people and frankly, the free food and I realized that there wasn't enough of my mission in there. So I didn't get a huge crowd coming in and I didn't get my mission out there and that was a failure.
Christopher: [19:08] I've heard you say more than once it wasn't the money. That food wasn't free, was it?
Andrew: [19:22] I know I paid sometimes for the food. I know sometimes the locations... I actually used to get these really big web companies back in the Web 2.0 days, to open up their beautiful offices to us and pay for food. Because what they wanted was everybody in the local community to get to know them. If they were in the tech start-up world, they should get to know these companies, partially for hiring, partially for biz-dev, partially to just start building this community, partially to have people see how far they've come with their companies and so they'd open them up and for me, I would just ask them to do it.
I remember ShopZilla did it, for example. A lot of them would buy a lot of great food and when people talked about going to the event, they said there's free food at this place and I think this is not the message. They are not getting the message.
Christopher: [20:12] Right.
You wanted to help them learn.
Andrew: [20:16] Yes. I wanted something that was more meaningful. I feel like parties are good but what's the point, right? I wanted it to be something that actually changes your life. Otherwise, I don't want to do it.
Christopher: [20:29] When you got done... I heard you say once that you spent about $300,000 on a failed business.
Andrew: [21:09] That was this business. In addition to organizing these events I also created an invitation site. I said, alright, I need my own invitation site. I'll start creating it. Then I got sucked into creating it more and then more and then I said I'm spending so much, it can't just be for me any more. Let's make it so anyone could use it. Then I got to really spending money.
Then at some point I realized I don't like my life doing this. This is not what I wanted to do. Nobody's using it and by the way, it cost $300,000 so far. I think I need to [32:30] stop. I would have continued if it was just the money. I don't mind spending the money. I did mind that it wasn't the life I wanted; it wasn't the impact I wanted and it was failing. I don't want to be a failure.
Christopher: [22:21] That's really what I think that the key in what I was getting to in this failure was that you had the ability to say it's the agony of the day in day out of a couple of different things. What I think I hear you saying, not doing what you want, not providing the messaging to either enough people or the right people in the right forum, therefore not going after the goal.
It was the pain and the discomfort of doing what you didn't love every day.
Andrew: [22:53] Yes.
Christopher: [33:13] Here in the... What I'm trying to help people understand how to do is there's a lot of people that are maybe... Let me step back for a second and let me explain where the outdoors industry in my opinion took off.
Andrew: [23:27] OK.
Christopher: [23:27] Instagram.
Andrew: [23:29] Instagram got the outdoor industry to take off?
Christopher: [23:32] From a need to be in the social space. To see the opportunity to become tech entrepreneurs by having a content site, by providing either content or podcasting or filmmaking short films with a message and putting their name on it and as people began to start these things up they realized the complexity
[24:00] and what I wanted to share with them is a couple of things. First of all it's simple to start a website and a blog and put your Instagram photo and direct people to your website, but it's hard.
You need to be doing something and taking action to get to your next steps and then thirdly, that if you fail, it's OK to pivot and get up and try something else.
This is example in asking you about [34:30] the failure by virtue of how you were feeling about where it was going. That's the point I wanted to make.
You got up from this failure and you continued with the name Mixergy and you started a content site and then you started podcasting.
Andrew: [24:46] You know, the little transition point was, I started podcasting to illustrate to people outside of my events, the quality of the guests who were coming in. I started watching these people who were really high quality entrepreneurs coming [35:00] to the events and nobody knew about it because all they knew about was the food. So I started interviewing them and posting it on line. Then I realized I can't make anyone love the event beyond the food because I didn't have anything to the event beyond the food. So I stopped organizing the events. I stopped doing the software invitation site and instead, I started inviting people to events where we focused on one topic and there I spent money but I spent it intelligently and with a clear purpose. [25:30]
I would go all over Santa Monica looking at different theaters and see if they had a night when they were not having a live performance there and rent the theater from them and then I would find a topic that I knew was important to people, like SEO was really important at the time, I'd say who is the best SEO person I could find around here. Great. I find them and I'd start interviewing them on stage.
Three different groups of people so we really moved things [26:00] along. That became the event that actually worked. So now we had an event the people actually wanted to come to and that had impact on them, that changed their lives. Then afterwards they could chat and they could get together and yes, I bought food and you could enjoy the food, but now it's not the food that's the center stage, it's the ideas that will change your business that were center stage.
I knew that there were a lot of entrepreneurs in Santa Monica who wanted to get to know venture capitalists so I got venture capitalists to come and do an event with me where they let me interview them on stage and then hold them [36:30] accountable for talking to the audience afterwards so that they're not just getting the stage time and then breezing right out of there.
That's when I started to really have an impact. But while I was doing those live events, the interviews were still going on; I was still interviewing people and interviewing people and I realized by interviewing people I got to go way bigger than any event could ever go. Yes, events are fun. I love events. But I could reach out to interview people who weren't in Santa Monica from my place in Santa Monica and [37:00] reach people who would never come to anywhere near California. That's when things really started to go.
That's when I realized I had founded. When I did that, I was able to start recording these interviews when I was in Austin, Texas for South by Southwest. We decided to travel somewhere I could do interviews either ahead of time or while I was at whatever other city we were in. Then my wife and I wanted to move to Argentina. I recorded my interviews in Argentina. It just became so freeing for me and so massive as far as reaching an audience. [37:30] The only person who didn't realize how massive it was getting was me at the time. I still felt like I had this business that did a billion dollar contest; what's the point of just doing a podcast. I did fully appreciate it, to be honest.
Christopher: [27:43] Was that anything to do with the fact that maybe that counter-mind of yours was sneaking in to raise that fear and doubt?
Andrew: [27:47] Yes. Sure.
Christopher: [27:49] Because one of the things I do... You said that I was brave and that at one point in one of our mastermind sessions you said, [38:00] "I wish that I could be as bold as Christopher to just call people up and ask them to be in his mastermind, even if they were famous or if they were somebody that might say no."
It was funny because you've done so many things to overcome hurdles. How did you feel when you were sitting in that chair on Good Morning America on national television? Were you nervous? Were you scared?
Andrew: [28:24] Before I got to sit there, I hire a media trainer who came to my office -
Christopher: [28:32] [jokes] You cheater.
Andrew: [28:33] -- who really trained me hard. Sorry?
Christopher: [28:37] I said "you cheater."
Andrew: [28:38] Oh, total cheat. Total, total cheat.
Christopher: [28:40] I love it.
Andrew: [28:41] It was... This guy threw such hard questions at me. The whole thing was very skeptical from his point of view. He just said, basically, "what the hell? A billion dollar jackpot? How could you do this? Who is really going to win?" He was really very skeptical. None of it was hard [39:00] for me because we practiced everything. The guy could have punched me in the face; I would have been prepared with an answer, because that's how hard we prepared.
Basically, a whole day in my conference room. I remember it was a weekend and no-one else was around. It was just me, our COO and the PR person and this trainer, who is just so good. She was really good.
But when I actually got to sit there, the way I felt was just exhausted. I'm the kind of person who goes all the way with everything. [29:30] I can't just run a 10K and be excited about it. I can't run a marathon and say, "I ran a marathon; life is good." I have to just keep saying, "what's next?"
After I ran the LA Marathon, for example, the first time, I got to sign up for it again because I love running marathons, but I refused to just run through it again. So I discovered that if you pay extra and you find this thing, you could cycle through the marathon before anyone else goes on the course -- and then run it.
So I said of course I'm going to sign up for that. Then I did even more runs and went longer. [29:00] So with work what that meant that I was working constantly to the point where when I finally got this thing I dreamed of -- media attention, the world watching me -- I was prepared for it in many different ways, like both with answers and also I was prepared for it financially, to handle whatever onslaught of traffic we were going to get.
I was just tired. I remember sitting there and just feeling the exhaustion of having run what is the equivalent of what felt like a million marathons.
I didn't fully appreciate it. I remember -
Christopher: [30:36] I wanted to add something, if I might interrupt, Andrew.
Andrew: [30:39] Yes.
Christopher: [30:39] Preparation.
Andrew: [30:41] Yes.
Christopher: [30:42] Hunting and fishing. I do little video snippets. Show people how to tie knots. I've been on some podcasts myself where I was interviewed and one of the huge things about... I hunt with a bow. That means I have to get within, I'm going to say 60 yards, for me, with my shot, probably 40.
Andrew: [30:49] So maybe that's why you're more of a photographer than a hunter, because that seems really hard. I'd miss a lot of those shots. I'd miss them all.
Christopher: [30:56] You miss them with your bow, too. Because when a thousand pound animal steps into 11 yards from you and it's drooling and screaming...
If you want to get a laugh, I can blow an elk bugle for you while we're on this. As a matter of fact, I'm going to do it. Because I'm not very good at it -
Andrew: [30:16] You're going to blow what?
Christopher: [30:18] I'm going to blow an elk bugle.
Andrew: [30:20] Elk bugle. I've never seen this before.
Christopher: [33:23] This is the mating ritual of the bull elk -
Andrew: [30:25] OK.
Christopher: [30:26] -- and he's showing either his dominance because another bull has come in to his territory and tried to take his girlfriend, or he's looking to fight. The only two sensations that bull elk have in September.
So -- hey, Corey Jacobson, I'm just going to tear you up.
He's our champion elk bugler out here in Idaho.
Andrew: [30:47] I am so curious about what this sounds like. What... OK.
Christopher: [30:51] It's going to sound like a sick bull elk.
[elk bugle sound]
Andrew: [32:03] That does sound sick. I thought it would be a lot scarier. Instead it just sounds like I feel sorry for the elk.
Christopher: [32:09] The lucky ones ran in front of me. I've been practicing elk bugling -
Andrew: [32:20] I think it actually changed your audio a little bit.
Christopher: [32:22] Oh, really?
Andrew: [32:23] I think so.
Christopher: [32:23] Is it working now?
Andrew: [32:25] Maybe you're better now. Yes.
Christopher: [32:27] Well, it was so good that my microphone couldn't handle it.
Andrew: [32:30] Your microphone was scared.
Christopher: [32:34] The preparation. You could do all the preparation in the world and that moment in the -- I'm going to say "the moment of truth" -- the last 30 seconds when that elk steps into range, [33:00] I was completely blown away at both my mental and my physiology at that time. I was shaking.
I'd been there before; I'd never had one come in that close and I hit a branch. My arrow flew up in the air. Anyway, my listeners know this story. They've heard it time and time again. The bottom line being that all we're hearing now in Mountain Ops, they're a supplement company that's just blowing up in Utah selling to the hunting industry. The Greedy Bowman has sessions. [33:20] There's event-based companies that are taking off. One of the things that I'm in right now as a result of this is "Train to Hunt." It's an obstacle course and you shoot your bow and you get scored and you get time and accuracy and so it tests those things.
One of the things I've noticed about you -- you're always prepared. If you're not prepared, you find a way to get prepared. You think on your feet very quickly. "OK, I'm going to hire a coach." Awesome. You banged on the door at Dale Carnegie and you said, "I've got to work here."
Right? Did that happen?
Andrew: [33:57] Yes. When I was in college.
Christopher: [33:58] You were in college. Were you scared?
Andrew: [34:02] I felt like that is me living up to these stories that I'd been reading. The people I admired would not just want to experience the Dale Carnegie company. They would just go and knock on the door and make it happen.
I felt very connected to who I admired at that moment and felt like I'm more like them than I realized I could be.
Christopher: [44:28] I just wanted to ask a couple of questions that I think might be relevant and say only because we don't have time. I could interview you until midnight or have a conversation with you until midnight and then get up, go for a run in the morning and I could start all over again, because...
Andrew: [34:43] Do you run?
Christopher: [34:45] [laughs] Yes. I own running shoes. I am down to like 220 so I feel like I'm ready to start running out on the street. Most of my training as far as running goes I do on treadmills for less. Running -- it will pound you up.
Andrew: [35:04] It does.
Christopher: [35:05] Hey, I wanted to show you this. Jeremy, your producer... Does this look familiar?
Andrew: [35:13] Those are notes. What is... That's the way he takes notes, isn't it.
Christopher: [35:18] Yes. I just thought it when I saw them sitting on my desk. It's my first go round. They're just my little brainstorming type notes. I wanted to look at it and see if I -
Andrew: [35:26] Oh, so those are your notes. So you take notes like he takes notes.
Christopher: [35:29] That's it.
Andrew: [35:30] All over the place. I go much more linearly and he's all over in lots of different sections and yours is even more artistic.
Christopher: [35:38] The final copy though. I'm both of you.
Andrew: [35:41] I see, OK.
Christopher: [35:43] A couple of things that I want to cover and I wanted you to reinforce. Then I have a couple questions for you and I know that you have to get going.
This feeling that we get as entrepreneurs that are content creators. It's pushed on us. Nobody's harder on their own industry than hunters and fishermen. They just beat each other up in the social -
Andrew: [36:05] Really.
Christopher: [36:08] Oh, it's horrible.
I would like to play a role in trying to get there to be more unity and get people to behave better with the social media and out in the face of the public. Because -
Andrew: [36:21] You mean they're attacking each other?
Christopher: [36:21] Absolutely. And there's a lot of opposition to hunting in general. But up until 50 years ago, that's how we fed our families. Where, in your case, you were picking the turnips out of the ground.
Andrew: [36:34] [laughs]
Christopher: [36:35] But that field to table, Andrew -- huge. Field to table is going to be the Snapchat of the outdoor industry.
Andrew: [36:41] I could see that.
Christopher: [36:42] How do we get that food on the table that's pure and healthy and doesn't have that stuff in it. We could do an entire session on Snapchat -
Andrew: [36:49] And Mark Zuckerberg was also doing it, too, right? Where he was hunting for a full year and only eating food that he hunted. That guy knows where the future is going. He predicted Instagram before the rest of us knew what he predicted, social before the rest of us knew it. So maybe, like you said, he's predicting this for us too.
Christopher: [37:07] Right. I say if he's talking, listen.
The sense that people that are in business that have an intimate relationship with the market or the financials or... They're in business and we content creators are not and I've seen it strike a nerve in you on several occasions.
-- Oh...
Andrew: [37:32] -- There we go. "We content creators are..." is the last thing I heard.
Christopher: [37:36] That content creators are not in business -
Andrew: [37:41] OK.
Christopher: [37:41] -- and I've seen this strike a nerve in you before. The thing is is that it holds people back.
Andrew: [37:47] Yes.
Christopher: [37:47] They sit there and they say, "oh, I'm just writing a blog" -
Andrew: [37:50] Yes.
Christopher: [37:51] "I'm just doing a podcast."
I'd just like to hear your thoughts on it.
Andrew: [37:57] I feel like there is some kind of snobbery around software specifically. Software is "eating the world," Marc Andreessen said and he's right. Everything is turning more towards software. My watch, which would have been analog a while back is full of software in it and it keeps getting better because of the software. I have nothing against software.
What I do think is really strange is this idea that nothing but this actually should matter.
Christopher: [38:21] Right.
Andrew: [38:21] Right? Meanwhile, there are tons of businesses that are goign to be growing into billion dollar -- maybe not tons -- but there are businesses that going to be growing into multi-million dollar status, into billion-dollar status, doing things like food, doing things like content. Absolutely it is important and we shouldn't fall for the snobbery of "software only."
Software is really important. I would probably even say it's the most important.
Christopher: [38:50] Sure.
Andrew: [38:51] But we can't get to a place where we feel so arrogant as to ignore everything else. Otherwise, we become like so many people in the tech press who are incredibly snobbish about BuzzFeed.
Christopher: [39:06] Right.
Andrew: [36:06] BuzzFeed is listicles. BuzzFeed is nothing but empty posts. Then BuzzFeed started getting bigger and bigger and bigger than the people who were criticizing them and then bigger than a lot of the software companies and bigger than so many other people.
Now they're huge.
Christopher: [39:22] Right.
Andrew: [39:22] That's the thing that I'm worried about us missing out. BuzzFeed is very software-heavy but it is content I think, way beyond software. There was a period there where they were all about creating their own CMS and that they had to had their own software to publish on their website and now they're publishing on YouTube. Now they're publishing on Snapchat. Now it's not about even their own software. It's about the content and that's what mostly matters.
That's what I'm concerned about. That we start to get so arrogant that we miss out on other opportunities.
Christopher: [40:02] If you're bringing authentic valuable content to the marketplace, you're in business. At the end of the day.
Andrew: [40:10] Yes.
Christopher: [40:11] For sure.
Andrew: [40:12] If you're helping people in any way in a point where they're willing to pay for it then you're in business. Nobody's saying to Rupert Murdoch, "this thing doesn't actually make sense. You should close up shop because your a content company." Right?
Christopher: [40:14] Right.
Andrew: [40:14] No-one is saying it to BuzzFeed today. No-one is going to say it to you tomorrow.
Frankly, now what's happening is content creators who are podcasters who are maybe even YouTubers who are definitely bloggers, start looking down on Snapchatters. As if those guys aren't really business. That's not really -
Christopher: [40:20] They're going to smoke them, Andrew.
Andrew: [40:21] Yeah.
Christopher: [40:28] The Snapchatters are making... If you got Gary out in front leading the charge...
Andrew: [40:30] Right. Gary Vaynerchuk's been talking about Snapchat a lot and you've got these little content creators who are fantastic. I just got introduced the other day to this woman who takes photos or videos of herself and then she draws around them. It's such a strange thing to be captivated by.
Or this guy who does nothing but take pictures of post-it notes on his wall. But the post-it notes are arranged like [41:41] a character from an old video game and as you tap the screen, that character moves around on his wall. It's such a clever way that he's using Snapchat to entertain us and that's not a business as he has it now. But someone's going to turn that into a business and we can't start looking down on them. We just have to say, "where's the opportunity? Who's taking advantage of it? What's so new that it just kind of rubs us the wrong way and that's what we should be attention to. That's the thing that bothers me about software people looking down on content creators; content creators looking down on other content creators.
Christopher: [40:44] Thats is a great answer-slash...
Andrew: [40:45] Rant?
Christopher: [40:46] Yes. If you want to call it... I like rants.
Andrew: [40:48] Yes.
Christopher: [40:49} Just as we get to the last couple of minutes, Andrew -- there's immutable laws of business, right? Been around for a long time. But we're entrepreneurs and we like to tinker with stuff. We can't just go with . . . I see you changing on the fly all the time -- I was doing this yesterday; I'm doing this today; now it's different because it's better.
Is there an immutable law that has stood the test of time for you that you were using 20 years ago in business that you're using today?
Andrew: [41:08] Yes. One that I've at times didn't live up to -- make money. That's the number one law in business. Make money.
There was a time, for a short period of time I thought, well, it has to just be about -- only an impact, only leaving a legacy. That stuff's really important but making money is what allows you to leave that legacy. Making money is what allows you to survive as a business. Making money I think is so important that that is the immutable law of business. And it's fun.
Christopher: [41:57] By the way, I love accountability; I love the fact that your honesty, your -I'm going to say -- fearlessness when it comes to helping people... Just so you guys know, you may have seen it in an earlier podcast of mine, I was talking about Andrew actually took somebody because they asked him for help and he took him down to the street and made him sell something, like sign up for a mailing list. Because I always say if you're going to call Andrew and ask for help. You better be ready, because he's coming.
Andrew: [42:37] He loved it. He came over for Scotch, this guy... Were you there that night?
Christopher: [42:38] No. No, I...
Andrew: [42:39] Ah, you just heard about it. You were there at Scotch night once, right?
Christopher: [42:42] It was in one of the forums, I think YI8 there. True minds -
Andrew: [42:46] Yes. You really did your homework on this. On me.
But this guy came in, there was another person who was also in the interview your heroes course where I teach people how to do interviews like you're doing with me and he brought an intern with him. I said, "you are just starting out and now you got an intern?" He goes, "yeah," and he starts introducing me to the intern. The intern then goes and instead of talking to me, talks to someone else at the event who happens to send people out on the street to collect money [43:00} for a charity -- which, by the way, these guys make bank for themselves and for charity; I had no idea -- talking about looking down on people? I thought this was so old-fashioned it makes no sense. Why are you walking down the street? There's good money in it. Their conversion rates are maybe low, but the revenue they bring in for the non-profits are high and for themselves too.
Anyway, so this intern is paying attention to this guy and I said, "why?" He goes, "I always wanted to have the guts to talk to a stranger and try to make a sale. The reason I'm doing this internship is so I learn how to [43.52] sell, so I learn how to get this guy interviewees, so I learn how to get him people to listen to him and I'm dying to know how to do it.
So I said, "OK. What did you learn from talking to the person who was here?" From talking to Jacob, and he told me what he learned, and I said "let's go try it. What would you say about going downstairs right now? I'm going to give you the assignment to talk to three strangers and get them to at least try to subscribe to your guy's podcast."
He was a little nervous and he goes, [44:02] "I love it." So then we go downstairs -- all of us -- and with all of us watching, we watch as he walks up to the security guard and says "do you know anything about podcasting?" The guy goes -- no. "Would you try subscribing to this podcast?" -- What's a podcast? -- and starts telling him and the security guard loved it. He just sitting there all day and suddenly he's introduced to podcasting and he's introduced to this guy's friend's podcast. So now we've got some real excitement here.
He kept going for a couple of other people; hit his target and it was fun for all of us.
Christopher: [44:34] Tell you what I'm going to do Andrew, I'm going to let you answer with the next question with a thumbs up or a thumbs down. I'm going to let you go because I know you have a real important meeting to get to.
Andrew: [44:39] Yes.
Christopher: [44:41] I told you before, I could talk all night. I enjoyed talking with you. I'll come down and see you next time or you come up here and do a little fishing or whatever.
Andrew: [44:52] Yes.
Christopher: [44:53] I'll direct people to your site on the show notes. We'll talk again soon. If there is something more relevant, maybe topic-specific down the road, maybe we could talk again.
Andrew: [45:03] OK.
Christopher: [45:05] From the river with a camera on the side, or something like that.
Andrew: [45:09] That would be a good place to do an interview. Yes.
Christopher: [45:12 It was great seeing you. Great smile, as always. Thanks for all you do.
My last question to you is -- Shark Tank. Thumbs up or thumbs down?
Andrew: [45:15] I'm going to go with the thumbs sideways. I'm kind of half way on it.
Christopher: [45:22] It makes the last question easy -- Do you ever see yourself on it?
Andrew: [45:24) No.
Christopher: [45:26] Neither did Chris Sacca.
Andrew, take care. Have a great meeting. I certainly appreciate it and I'll send you a copy of the bookends of this thing.
Andrew: [45:43] I'd love it. Thanks for having me on.
Christopher: [45:44] You bet.

May 17, 2016
EPISODE 1 - Cory Glauner from Outdoors International

Cory's secrets to his success:

  • Be bull-headed, stubborn with a never give up attitude
  • Always be on-point and on your game
  • Continue to learn and stay updated on new technology
  • Be nimble and unafraid of change